Hi
do you use a dryfly floatant on CDC flys or rely on their natural oils.
Cheers
I think it depends on the type of feather you use. I bought a bulk bag from Cookshill, which I found to have lots of small feathers. I just use them for emergers and duns with a tiny bit of silicone mucilin and keep the larger for cdc and elk. I'm interested to hear what others do though.
have tried them with and with out ! i prefer without ! Floatant
Buy some dry shake which is basically silica gel powder. When the cdc fly gets wet dry out with a tissue, amadou patch or vigorous false cast then put it in the dry shake and give it a shake. Good as new. I would not be without dry shake for cdc flies. As Col has noted, do not put floatant near them. It will clog up and destroy the feather structure.
Dry Shake is very expensive, this is an alternative I am trying out
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUST-N-DRY-FLY-POWDER-FLOATANT-NEW-Fly-Fishing-/250599546236?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item3a58e59d7c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUST-N-DRY-FLY-POWDER-FLOATANT-NEW-Fly-Fishing-/250599546236?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item3a58e59d7c)
What I do is rub the CDC on your fleece when yir fishing. Works a treat.
Paul
There is an American product that is now available over here I tried some years ago which is first class for CDC flies.
It is called Frogs Fanny. I tried to import it years back when I first became aware of it but they wanted a bona fide distributor & I did not fit their bill. There are a few UK distributors now including the one listed below. Pricy but good never the less.
Tight Lines
http://www.fliesonline.co.uk/accessories/general-accessories/frogs-fanny.html (http://www.fliesonline.co.uk/accessories/general-accessories/frogs-fanny.html)
Frog's Fanny is fumed silica dioxide (if I remember correctly) and can be bought online in bulk for pennies. The frogs fanny applicator bottle is handy though, so buy one then refill.
Widnae fancy typing that intae a google search :lol:
What's the matter with fumed silica dioxide? :lol:
I definitely rate Frog's Fanny too. The other silica powders I have tried were probably just as good but the applicator in the bottle (basically a small brush mounted in the cap so you can apply it just to the CDC wing of the fly) is what makes the FF stand out I reckon- I think when the lot I have runs out then I am going to resort to grinding down silica crystals etc in a blender or whatever as its cheaper
Although if davefromtheattic can recommend an online stockist that delivers in quantities of less than 5 tonnes then might buy fumed silica dioxide that way (all I could see from a quick google were bulk suppliers- that said if 10 of us chipped in we could have half a tonne each? :shock: )
Martin
You can buy reasonable amounts here;
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/f_mixin.html (http://www.epoxyproducts.com/f_mixin.html)
QUOTE
Recently we've had lots of 1 quart purchases of our hydrophobic (water repelling) fumed silica. We thought this odd as the shipping on one quart is about as much as the product. Turns out that fly-fisherman have been using it (successfully, we assume) to 'dip' their flies into so that they 'act' more like real insects on the surface of the water! A quart apparently is a lifetime supply. We're probably the only '1 quart source' anywhere. ----
"Paul, This is my 2nd order with your company... When a dry fly becomes waterlogged, I squeeze it between layers of an absorbent cloth, then apply the fumed silica with the brush working it into all parts of the fly. It then floats like new, if not better."
And another fly fisherman emailed me: "Well, I'll tell you, the 'right stuff' is magic for flies (and the wrong stuff, like cab-o-si M5 is a disaster!). It can dry out a soggy dry fly and float it better than a fresh one from your flybox. It's expecially useful for flies made from feathers or fur that can't be treated with our regular paste type flotants like silicones. And on subsurface flies, it adds a shine and a bubble layer that mimics the naturals as they are about to emerge. People say their treated flies are 2 to 3 times more effective.
But, you can't trust a flyfisherman any more than *any* fisherman, so you need to take that with a large grain of salt."
Scott (9/7/09) "I catch more fish with your product than anything else I've ever tried! Thanks!"
UNQUOTE
Info;
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/silica.html (http://www.epoxyproducts.com/silica.html)
You MUST use "hydrophobic" fumed silica. There are also other types, notably "hydrophilic" Fumed silica, which will have exactly the opposite effect on floating flies, they will clog up and sink like a brick.
Ground silica gel is a pretty effective dessicant, but not as good as the hydrophobic fumed silica.
Some info on the silica gel;
The various dry shake products are mostly hydrophobic fumed silica (Cab-o-Sil TS-720) or similar products. These dry and waterproof the fly, because of the hydrophobic powder material in the substance.
If you just want to dry your flies really well, then get some silica gel. Practically any flower shop or chemist will have it, it is a drying agent used for drying flowers among other things. It is also used in small sachets to pack drugs and electronics in order to keep them dry in transit. Grind this up, in a coffee grinder or similar, and you have a pure drying agent. You can save your expensive dry-shake for flies you want to completely dry AND waterproof.
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7983/silgel.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/silgel.jpg/)
Silica gel is an amorphous form of silicon dioxide, which is synthetically produced in the form of hard irregular granules (having the appearance of crystals) or hard irregular beads. A microporous structure of interlocking cavities gives a very high surface area (800 square meters per gram). It is this structure that makes silica gel a high capacity desiccant. Water molecules adhere to the gels surface because it exhibits a lower vapour pressure than the surrounding air.
When an equilibrium of equal pressure is reached, no more adsorption occurs. Thus the higher the humidity of the surrounding air, the greater the amount of water that is adsorbed before equilibrium is reached. It is in these higher humidity conditions (above 50% Relative Humidity) that stored or in-transit items are susceptible to damage.
The beauty of silica gel is the physical adsorption of water vapour into its internal pores. There is no chemical reaction, no by-products or side effects. Even when saturated with water vapour, silica gel still has the appearance of a dry product, its shape unchanged.
Advantages of silica gel as a desiccant.
Silica gel has many other properties that recommend it as a desiccant.
- It will adsorb up to one third of its own weight in water vapour. This adsorption efficiency is approximately 35% greater that typical desiccant clays, making silica gel the preferred choice where weight or efficiency are important factors.
- It has an almost indefinite shelf life if stored in airtight conditions.
- It can be regenerated and reused if required. Gently heating silica gel
will drive off the adsorbed moisture and leave it ready for reuse. ( Twenty minutes at 100°C in an oven).
- It is a very inert material, it will not normally attack or corrode other materials and with the exception of strong alkalis and hydrofluoric acid is itself resistant to attack.
- It is non-toxic and non-flammable.
- It is most frequently and conveniently used packed in a breathable sachet or bag. These are available in a wide range of sizes suitable for use with a wide range of applications.
Standard white silica gel is referred to as being non-indicating. As it adsorbs moisture it remains physically unchanged. Non-indicating silica gel is both cheap and effective, available loose in bulk packs or packed in sachets Self-indicating silica gels are coloured gels whose colour changes as they adsorb moisture.
It is often used for packing electronic equipment and similar to prevent damage by condensation. It is usually in small paper sachets in the packing boxes. If you ask at an electrical goods store or similar they may be able to give you a whole load of it, as they just throw it away. Silica gel is in the form of small spheres usually, to use this as a fly drying medium, just grind these up in a coffee grinder or similar, you can also crush it with a hammer, and put in an airtight container such as a 35mm film can. To dry your fly, just dip it in the powder and shake, the fly is dry almost immediately.
To use the ground silica gel as a fly drying medium, keep a 35mm film container about half full of it in an inside pocket ( keeps it warm and improves the drying efficiency), Drop the fly into the container, shake, and the fly is dry almost immediately. The fly is NOT waterproofed, only dried! It helps if you remove any excess moisture from the fly first of course. Best for this is either Amadou, or one of the Microfibre washcloths available in supermarkets etc. These will usually dry the fly incredibly well by themselves, the structure of the cloth absorbs a large amount of water very quickly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber)
Source;
http://www.amazon.com/Aquis-Microfiber-Washcloth-Waffle-White/dp/B000GAQ8TG (http://www.amazon.com/Aquis-Microfiber-Washcloth-Waffle-White/dp/B000GAQ8TG)
It is not a good idea to use silica gel in fly-boxes, because the gel will adsorb water from the surroundings, and may have the reverse effect to the one desired, holding moisture in your box. The best policy is to ensure your flies are perfectly dry before putting them back in the box. The best way to do this is to get a small plastic film canister with a snap on lid. Drill a series of holes with a small drill around the base, and around the upper rim. Drill a hole in the lid, pass a cord through it and knot it, and attach the other end to your vest or whatever. Used flies placed in this box dry perfectly, and relatively quickly. You cannot lose the flies ( flies tend to fall out of "drying-patches" and the like, especially barbless ones ! ), and your drying box may be emptied at the end of the day and the dry flies returned to the main box. This is the best way to dry flies I have yet discovered.
As it may also be of interest in this regard, here is some info on CDC;
CDC which is the abbreviation for the French "Cul de Canard" are the feathers found in the vicinity of the preen gland on ducks and similar birds.
One point which I would like to make here, as several people asked me about it recently, and because there is still a lot of confusion , concerns CDC feathers. If one uses these feathers taken directly from a duck, and they are not treated in any way, then they float extremely well for two reasons, the first reason is that the feathers are coated with natural grease or oil from the preening gland of the bird, which effectively waterproofs them for a while. This means that the feathers do not get wet, and float very well as a consequence! This property disappears with time and use however, usually quite quickly, as the natural oil washes out eventually. The flies still float well however, because of the second reason. Very heavily oiled feathers direct from the bird may be "clogged" with oil, and will actually then sink faster than unoiled CDC.
The second reason, and by far the most important one for the fly-dresser is that these feathers have an unusual structure of fine radial barbs which helps them to trap air, and gives them a very large surface area which enables them to float much more readily than other types of feather. Once treated, by dyeing etc, most or all of the natural grease has been removed, but the feathers will still float very well indeed because of their structural properties. Once thoroughly soaked they will sink however, and must be thoroughly dried before using them again. I have mentioned this quite a few times in the past on various occasions, and have even had people argue about it. Once again, Hans Weilenmann has provided some excellent info on CDC feathers indeed a complete system of identification and usage! Although he is far too modest in this regard, this has now become the de-facto standard for many fly-dressers;
http://www.danica.com/flytier/articles/cdc_types/cdc_types.htm (http://www.danica.com/flytier/articles/cdc_types/cdc_types.htm)
Consider this, nearly all water-birds possess a natural waterproofing system in the form of a preen gland which exudes oil, and this is then applied to the feathers by the bird using its beak. If this gland ceases to function, or the birds are degreased for some reason (use of detergent after an oil spill for instance,) the birds no longer float because the feathers become waterlogged and the bird sinks and drowns. The structural properties of the feathers are of no use to the bird in this case. Waterlogged flies may be dried out and used over and over again of course, relying entirely on the structural properties to maintain the excellent floating capability independent of the natural oil.
These feathers are best not treated with various paste and similar type floatant at the streamside when used for dry flies, this will have the effect of clogging the fibres usually, and actually make them sink more quickly. There is a product on the market called "Watershed" this is a waterproofing liquid which is applied to the flies twenty four hours before use, and supposedly renders them completely waterproof, I have tried this recently on quite a number of flies and it seems to work very well, even on CDC feathers. In the meantime I have fished quite a lot with these flies. Although it seems to help a little pre-treating them with Watershed, it does not make as much difference as I had hoped. The best way to dry these flies is still to use a pad of amadou, or microfibre, and either ground silica gel, or one of the various dry-shake products available, which also contain powdered floatant. Opinions on various floatants are legion, some anglers having decided preferences for one or the other. If it works for you, then that is fine!
This also applies to fur fibre flies, where paste and similar grease type floatants will merely clog them up, and actually make them sink faster.
TL
MC
Great info there Mike. Very useful, thanks for that.
My pleasure Fred. Somebody pointed out to me that the particular cloths I linked to are not currently available. Here is an alternative;
http://www.amazon.com/Microfiber-Wonder-Cloths-Set-4/dp/B000Y28KKQ/ref=dp_cp_ob_bt_title_0 (http://www.amazon.com/Microfiber-Wonder-Cloths-Set-4/dp/B000Y28KKQ/ref=dp_cp_ob_bt_title_0)
Most supermarkets and many other shops have them now. It doesn't make any difference what they are actually called, as long as they are the right type of microfibre. These will almost literally "suck a fly dry" also removing slime, blood, etc. The suitable types usually have some "blurb" on the packaging somewhere, which states that they will absorb up to eight times their own weight in water. These things operate on the same principle as Amadou, and having used both regularly I can find no difference in performance. The microfibre is rather more convenient of course, and it will virtually never wear out. I keep a couple of small patches ( just cut a square out of one of the cloths) for drying flies in one of my pockets, and I also have a "full size" ( about the size of an old type "facecloth" or handkerchief ) , cloth for drying my hands, getting fish slime off etc. This folds or "scrunches" up to a very small size if desired, but will suffice for a full days fishing.
One word of warning, if you wear spectacles, DONT be tempted to clean them with a "used" cloth of this nature, various trapped particles can scratch the glass, ( and especially the plastic lenses now common), very badly. Same goes for camera lenses and other optical equipment. Fresh cloths or freshly washed cloths are alright for this purpose. You can just pop these things in the washing machine with towels or underwear etc to clean them.
TL
MC
I bought some of this recently cheaper than frogs fanny works good :D.http://www.lathkill.com/shop/index.php?productID=4133 (http://www.lathkill.com/shop/index.php?productID=4133)
Cheers
surely the cheapest option is to just go out and catch a frog!
Quote from: harelug on September 10, 2011, 10:12:36 AM
surely the cheapest option is to just go out and catch a frog!
Possibly, but doubtless far more interesting, ( although often not cheap), to go out and catch a fanny! :)
TL
MC
Couple of new comprehensive articles on CDC;
http://globalflyfisher.com/tiebetter/tying-with-cdc/ (http://globalflyfisher.com/tiebetter/tying-with-cdc/)
http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/cdcelk/ (http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/cdcelk/)
TL
MC
Thanks "Traditionalist" just ordered some fumed silica from the company you suggested. Very simple, two quick emails and payment by PayPal. Will now have enough to refill my and my mates Frogs Fanny containers for just about ever.
$6 for a quart, and $14 first class postage from the states.
Quote from: Gola on September 14, 2011, 01:54:02 PM
Thanks "Traditionalist" just ordered some fumed silica from the company you suggested. Very simple, two quick emails and payment by PayPal. Will now have enough to refill my and my mates Frogs Fanny containers for just about ever.
$6 for a quart, and $14 first class postage from the states.
My pleasure, glad it helped out. The postage is a bit of a bugger, but it's still a great deal cheaper in the long run than buying small bottles of the stuff at tackle shops.
TL
MC