Wondered when we are going to see the first one? Or is there one out there already ?. Not bespoke made cane but production carbon from a mainstream maker.
Latest GCA catalogue dropped through the door & I can not help noticing prices creeping up not just for rods but just about everything. Are Sage, Hardy & Winston really worth £700-£800 quid or are we just being taken for mugs ?.
Comments please gents.
Tight lines
Quote from: Highlander on September 15, 2018, 11:49:26 PM
or are we just being taken for mugs ?.
Pretty much. I have a few Sage rods, they are great but not worth 1/2 of what they ask for them. Mine cost a few hundred quid second hand.
This time next year I'd imagine.....
Already seeing waders that are around a 1000 quid. Mental!
I never buy new. Either buy the blank and build or second hand. I have a few winstons now and they we're much less than half price. Mind you buying blanks from the states is a nightmare now given brexit and the sterling crash.
A genralised observation, but has anyone else noticed that most of the purchasers of very expensive rods are unable to use them properly. :D :D
Quote from: claretbumble on September 16, 2018, 01:36:43 PM
Are you specifically meaning *trout* rods, as I'm pretty sure there are fly rods out there that crack the £1000 barrier already McKenzie?
If people have money, manufacturers will find ways of parting them from it!
The latest "must have"salmon rods from Hardy are £1300! :shock: :shock:
If you're not in a hurry you can pick up "bargains" on eBay, hardly used or sometimes unused premium rods that people have bought and realised they don't fish :lol: value is definitely in second hand stuff, I'd love a Winston but impossible to justify.
Last two rods ... One on ebay £100 ... One from GAC from their traded in secondhand list. Both in excellent "unused, as new" condition. Both used every week by Mrs Bobfly. Big names simply means big prices and the fashion industry approach has come to angling.
I once had a client who was a big manufacturer of jeans for many big names. "No pair I make costs more than £11 for me to supply and I see some being sold for over £175." Nuf said.
Quote from: bibio1 on September 16, 2018, 12:46:47 PM
I never buy new.
Me neither but my preferred supplier - Mark -seems to have gone q bit quiet. :lol:
Have to say that no other rod I have owned comes close to my Sage ZXL #4, 9 foot for sheer joy of use. It is a delight to wield.
£650 when new, my copy cost £220 from Mark Rods, Carnwath. It still had the shrink wrap on the cork. :lol:
Quote from: admin on September 16, 2018, 02:52:35 PM
Have to say that no other rod I have owned comes close to my Sage ZXL #4, 9 foot for sheer joy of use. It is a delight to wield.
£650 when new, my copy cost £220 from Mark Rods, Carnwath. It still had the shrink wrap on the cork. :lol:
My 'go-to' trout rod during prime time Fred. Have you tried the Circas? A fair bit slower than the ZXL but equally as nice IMO.
Have not tried the Circa yet David. I also use a 9 foot #4 Z Axis (£250 Ebay) and a Scott S4 9 foot #4 (£200 from Carnwath Fly Rods) when I want something beefier. I'm not a good enough caster for very fast rods. Had a 9 foot #5 Sage ZXL but sold it. I lost amazing numbers of fish on that rod (due to its stiffness I'm sure) including the biggest trout I ever hooked on The Don; to say I was sick would be an understatement. I much prefer mid auctioned rods like the ZXL. It is a delight to fish with.
Quote from: Laxdale on September 16, 2018, 01:20:22 PM
A genralised observation, but has anyone else noticed that most of the purchasers of very expensive rods are unable to use them properly. :D :D
I think that might be a big part of the reason why so many people think budget rods are just as good at casting as premium rods. They can't get the rod to load properly, or they struggle to maintain loop control.
None of that means the premium rods aren't overpriced of course. They are in my opinion generally speaking better rods than cheaper rods, but not 4 or 5 times better.
One thing about having a cheaper rod is that you aren't scared to use them in a boat or when you are casting heavy tungsten or the likes. I must confess I live in terror if I find myself fishing from a boat with a Sage and will usually use something more expendable..
Alex
I was not going to contribute to this thread given the emotions the topic can generate but whatever :crap :crap
My first fly rod was a gift of an ancient greenheart one. The second (which I still have) was less than £1 over 50 years ago.
I have not done the math but I suspect I paid the equivalent of £1000 today for my first "expensive" rod; a Sage RPL+ in about 1994. And perhaps again for a Helios in 2005. Both rods have given me an enormous amount of pleasure and landed me lots of trout. Would I have caught fewer fish with cheaper rods? Probably perhaps certainly not, but I have really enjoyed using these rods and do not begrudge a penny of the cost.
As it happens, a few months ago (despite this season being completely in love with a Hardy Demon Smuggler that was a present) I got as far as discussing delivery options with Matt Barber of Tom Morgan to mark a significant birthday but some family matters distracted me. But Christmas beckons! :D :D :D
Let's to each his own. And without those prepared to pay exorbitant sums for these exotica when new where would the cheap second-hand ones come from??
I fish some nice fly rods for the joy it brings me, they're usually lighter with a finer finish and in the case of my latest Sage unbelievably accurate both off the tip and at a very long distance but to be honest I just like fishing with good gear and don't see any reason not to, we're here for a good time not a long time after all.
I also put a hell of a lot of hours/days in on the river so I justify the prices per trip. I've been out probably near 100 times this season and I'll put a good few more on that for grayling. Honestly if anyone has access to an Orvis store or dealer try the new Helios 3F in a 9' 4wt with a Rio Gold, I had a go with Don Stazikers and it's sublime.
Sean
Quote from: haresear on September 16, 2018, 05:07:35 PM
I think that might be a big part of the reason why so many people think budget rods are just as good at casting as premium rods. They can't get the rod to load properly, or they struggle to maintain loop control.
None of that means the premium rods aren't overpriced of course. They are in my opinion generally speaking better rods than cheaper rods, but not 4 or 5 times better.
One thing about having a cheaper rod is that you aren't scared to use them in a boat or when you are casting heavy tungsten or the likes. I must confess I live in terror if I find myself fishing from a boat with a Sage and will usually use something more expendable..
Alex
Cannot load the rod usually means the wrong line is being used, and tight loops usually means a casting stick as opposed to a fishing rod!
I can understand paying more for a rod that will be more robust and lighter, as well as having better quality fittings. But rod action can be exactly the same on a cheap stick and a very expensive rod.
I probably have too many rods but they are shared and I shy away from using my 8.5 foot Sage XP from the float tube because of the scrabbling about on rocky shores getting in and out in windy weather. Instead we have 2 Lpxe 9 footers and these are very good. Quick and accurate. Out on the heather and on rough ground I use a Scierra 9 footer and an old Marksman Drifter 10ft 5wt from the boat or the old Scierra if the weather is rough. Keeps from despair if I had broken a good rod ... Perverse logic I know.
I have 30 + rods in the loft ranging from light fly rods to beachcasters. That's after selling quite a few 2 years ago. :lol:
Bottom line is this -you spend your money on what you choose and what gives you pleasure. I know a lot of folk who happily spend a small fortune on hangovers - that's up to them.
If someone gets pleasure from spending £1000 on a plastic stick with a cork handle then good for them.
If you think fly rods are expensive try professional quality cameras and lenses. :shock:
Quote from: admin on September 16, 2018, 02:52:35 PM
Have to say that no other rod I have owned comes close to my Sage ZXL #4, 9 foot for sheer joy of use. It is a delight to wield.
£650 when new, my copy cost £220 from Mark Rods, Carnwath. It still had the shrink wrap on the cork. :lol:
I've tried the zxl but in my view the winston 904WT is the best. Bought the blank for £100 and got it made up. It's not a distance caster but as a dry fly rod it's superb. There are bargains if you look. eBay in particular is good for rod blanks but unfortunately we're going through an ultra expensive Cycle abroad.
Fred's right, I think spending what is a fairly obscene amount of money on the rod is part of the thril, part of the excitement " I know I shouldn't but I really want another 5 weight!" And splashing money on it, probably akin to a woman buying shoes :roll: men like accessory hobbies cos when they're not doing it (most of the time :( ) they can obsess about the gear.......and as Fred also says it could be a lot worse, my brothers into mountain biking and spent 5grand on a bike :shock: and he still needs to peddle it!
I think that if my ZXL ever gets broken or lost I'll give up fishing. I don't believe I'll ever find another rod that I like as much.
Not without speeding a £1000 anyway. :lol:
Never spent more than £100 on a rod, still catch fish. I've tried expensive rods and discovered that I would have to learn to use them. My casting is bad enough without having to adjust my technique (ha ha) each time I take out a different rod.
Most of my fishing is from a boat with a £60 Daiwa. I do not need precision or tight loops, distance and decent presentation -yes- I can manage that.
My other interest is woodworking. There are plenty in that hobby who believe that spending thousands on tools will take them from a pile of wood to a Chippendale escritoire without any input on their part. In the same way that a £1000 rod is "bound" to place a fly on the chosen sixpence 100ft from the angler on its own!
The worry in a £1000 rod is that they actually have people that buy them. Whilst I am sure they are better they will only be marginally so. Buy second hand or a blank and get it made up. It's a much better return for your hard earned.
I would be worried too about breaking any rod at that sort of price !!!!! I hardly ever use my "best" rod got for a special birthday and not half that price. :shock:
Think I'll get out my cheap £650 Sage ZXL and head down the river for an hour or two.
This retirement is feckin' murder isn't it. :lol:
My most expensive rod was £300 and that was over 15 years ago, I couldn't see myself spending more than that again, to my mind there are plenty really good rods in the under £300 range.
What I would say is that some people spend tens of thousands on new cars every year or 2, for some its fancy holidays abroad 3 times a year, others won't leave their home without having designer brands all over their person.
If your wish is to spend your hard earned cash on an expensive rod then more power to you, do what makes you happy.
Just because a rod is X time more expensive than an alternative surely it unreasonable to expect it to therefore be X time better. Common sense would assume that law of diminising returns applies.
Although a long time ago I can well remember from my economics degree the theory behind the law of diminishing returns. But I have still just ordered a Tom Morgan :shock: :roll:
I absolutely accept that it will be at best only marginally "better" than my existing rods but I just could not resist the craving. Heroin is surely less addictive than being a tackle tart!
They do look a little special.
QuoteI have still just ordered a Tom Morgan
Owch, just googled his site, eye watering prices, I guess you must have tried one of his rods somewhere before splashing that amount of Wonga.
Quote from: johnny boy on October 08, 2018, 02:42:54 PM
Owch, just googled his site, eye watering prices, I guess you must have tried one of his rods somewhere before splashing that amount of Wonga.
I did Johnny some years ago – although not the version I have ordered - and I could give you a lengthy explanation (complete waffle really :D) of why it is the best technical solution to my style of fishing. The truth is it was a bit like when I first picked up a Sage Click reel; that just transmitted "buy me" vibes direct to my brain until I did so. Not that I have ever regretted it.
As an aside, as I get older I find shorter and softer rods much easier to manage all day. And as most of my fish come from quite close in I do not need the "power" of stiffer rods to hurl a fly to the horizon. When we were fishing together earlier in the year I was using an 8½ ft rod. After that trip I used an 8ft rod for the whole rest of the season. And caught plenty of fish.
I am sure I have an old Milbro fibreglass rod in the garage. I can let you have it for $1000 plus postage. Save yourself a few bob?
Quote from: Laxdale on October 08, 2018, 07:11:22 PM
I am sure I have an old Milbro fibreglass rod in the garage. I can let you have it for $1000 plus postage. Save yourself a few bob?
Thanks for the thought but I still have my no-name fibre glass rod from 50 years ago.
If I could lift it now I might start using it again as it caught me my biggest ever wild brownie - 6lb :D :D
Tom Morgan rods are absolutely stunning, I've handled one of his cane rods and also a couple of Tom Moran's cane rods also. The alternative tackle company do them every now and then as well as Burkheimers which are also beauties! Mark Leggett the owner is a top bloke too.
I just bought a Sage X from a friend in the tackle industry for around 30% off, still a lot but it'll see a hell of a lot of use. The closed season will be long and cold waiting to use that. I'm already dreaming of warm July evenings when the river is alive with trout rising to blue winged olives! :mrgreen:
For those interested: https://www.yellowstoneangler.com/index.php/gear-review/2016-5-weight-shootout-fly-rod-review-5weightflyrodcomparison-new-fly-rods-best-all-around-fly-rod-g-loomisnrxlp-scott-radian-orvis-helios2-hardyzephrus-hardy-wraith-sagemod-sage-bolt-loop-optistream/tom-morgan-rodsmiths-4-pc
But as I said earlier, my "fish of a lifetime" was caught using a rod costing less than £1 and has not been matched since with tackle costing silly money. A few times I have come close though ......
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Very pretty but will it catch any more fish than my existing rods? Almost certainly not.
Will it cast further than my existing rods? Actually no.
Is it more accurate than my existing rods? Not that I can tell.
Will it impress other anglers? Unlikely, as I usually fish alone or with one good friend who already teases me unmercifully about being a tackle tart – and anyway, I am long long past caring what other people think.
Am I happy with it? Absolutely delighted. Casts like a dream.
PS. Afraid if you want one for this season you are unlucky☹️. Nearly 11 months from enquiry to delivery.
Fantastic looking rod, hard to tell from the photos and I don't think you mentioned it earlier so let's have the low down on it :-) What length? I hope you get lots of enjoyment from it and have a very many fish on it as well. Bring yourself back to Lewis and get a salmon, sea trout and brown trout on it :-)
I have a Dave Lewis rod that, I guess, is of similar quality etc. but mine is maybe nearly 20 years old and is on a 6 weight 11 foot. I don't remember what it cost back then, with import fees etc., but think it was somewhere around £400. Nice rod and I enjoy having it but as I've mentioned before I mostly fish Leeda rods with my fave being one I bought many years ago and that was inexpensive even then. Expensive rods are not necessary, but if they give you pleasure then just go for it.
Anyone looking a good read for a Saturday can nip over to Dave's web site and check out his rods and his photo journals and reports on fishing in the USA, great writing and photos. Dave is dead so there's nothing for sale but it is an enjoyable way to pass an afternoon:
http://www.davelewisflyrods.com/
Quote from: caorach on April 13, 2019, 04:25:43 PM
Fantastic looking rod, hard to tell from the photos and I don't think you mentioned it earlier so let's have the low down on it :-) What length? I hope you get lots of enjoyment from it and have a very many fish on it as well. Bring yourself back to Lewis and get a salmon, sea trout and brown trout on it :-)
Hello Phillip
It's an 8½ ft #5 weight. The build quality and finish of the rod, bag and tube are truly stunning – all like works of art although I accept the fish will not appreciate this.
The only refinements I chose were alignment dots and a fly "keeper".
I have finally learned most of my trout come from close to the bank so horizon casting is unnecessary and perhaps even counterproductive. Also, I find shorter rods are much kinder to my shoulder if out all day.
And I have moved away from stiff pokers to softer more through-action rods which definitely describes the TM. It has a VERY smooth action.
Although I mostly fish #3 and #4 weight rods these days with a single dry, the excuse was I needed a #5 weight rod shorter than those in my existing 9 ft and 10ft collection for windier days.
The Dave Lewis rods look very good and I like dealing with small firms. There are some excellent boutique rod builders around but care is needed. My friend you met when we were on Lewis bought an expensive bespoke rod after a few swishes of a test model and reading a review. The rod is beautifully made but the blank action does not suit him at all and he much prefers his much cheaper mass-market rod. The expensive one never gets used.
Quote from: arawa on April 13, 2019, 06:15:11 PM
My friend you met when we were on Lewis bought an expensive bespoke rod after a few swishes of a test model and reading a review. The rod is beautifully made but the blank action does not suit him at all and he much prefers his much cheaper mass-market rod. The expensive one never gets used.
Yours sounds like a great all rounder, I prefer longer rods myself but to be honest I don't think they give any huge advantage in many circumstances.
You do make a good point though - you can test rods and all looks good but once you've been on the water for a day or two with them you realize that they simply aren't for you. Now people are adaptable and so can make most stuff work but on the other hand it is nice to have something that just feels right. I think that this might be why, in part, I've taken to buying inexpensive rods as then if it takes you a month to decide you don't like it there is no big loss and they seems just as likely to work for you as an expensive one. However, this is not to take away from the fact that you've bought one not just because it works but also because you like it and I think that is a perfectly good justification as well and was what I did with the Dave Lewis rod. Once the season gets going get yourself on the ferry and we'll try to get you a 6lb trout on the new rod :-)
Low cost does not always mean low quality blanks. I was talking one day with an equipment rep who told me to go into Frank Thompsons in Crieff (now closed). "I know they have XXXX rods for sale at £74 because I just supplied them. Go now and try one because those blanks normally go into rods that sell with a zero added after the 74." So I went and bought one and a smooth powerful rod it is; even if the cork is not top quality the rod is very good to use.
I hope the new poker catches you a few nice troots, you have done your homework for the rod and I am sure you will enjoy it (just bring summit with more backbone when you call up next time) 😁
Don't let Iain near it...
The only thing that is important about any purchase - fly rod or otherwise - is the buyer is happy. :D
There is also the self delusion that men are not impulse buyers ......... :8)
The biggest delusion is that having fallen for the sales talk and parted with a considerable amount of cash, you can take yourself down to the water and immediately land a fly like a feather, on a sixpence of you choosing, fifty yards away.
You can't.
The reverse is true, if you can already do that, it may well be worth investing in an expensive rod, as you know what you need.
I have just had a rod built. It was on Etsy and tanaiwa was the seller. Just put in reel seat. The blanks on this site are amazing. I bought the 10ft 2wt and the 3wt. I've cast most and fished most but these rods are astounding.
That's where I got all my components paul, I toyed with the blanks but eventually went for the Harrison. Good to know because the rods/blanks are reasonable. Anyways have you not got enough rods? :lol:
Has a woman ever got enough shoes?
Quote from: bibio1 on April 18, 2019, 08:55:01 AM
Has a woman ever got enough shoes?
My wife doesn't wear shoes, prefers sandals and flipflops or bare feet.
I am just waiting for tank aerials to become fashionable again. A snip at 2K each. Paul would have to get several.....
You'll get a shot in August. I'll be dumbfounded if your not a convert. I bet you throw out the tank aerials the next day.