Heavy flies or multiple flies: Do you bother with tapered leaders?

[Malcolm]

Interesting Brian,

I would have thought that it would have made almost no difference particularly with heavy salmon flies. Maybe your leaders are very thick indeed at the butt? I have some leaders tapered to 8lb which is ideal for single handed salmon fishing but they feel just the same as my 8 or 10lb straight through when subjected to one of my size 6 weighted doubles.

[Traditionalist]

Interesting Brian,

I would have thought that it would have made almost no difference particularly with heavy salmon flies. Maybe your leaders are very thick indeed at the butt? I have some leaders tapered to 8lb which is ideal for single handed salmon fishing but they feel just the same as my 8 or 10lb straight through when subjected to one of my size 6 weighted doubles.

That is correct. Above a certain weight a tapered leader makes no difference at all to turnover. The leader tippet is not capable of sufficient power transfer to allow this. The only way to turn over heavy or bulky flies is to force turnover, either by stopping the cast or using a triple haul.

However, a tapered leader butt can make this somewhat easier as it prevents almost immediate "hinging" at the line/leader connection and allows more of a loop to form. Also depends a lot on the line and casting style you are using. When using heavy flies the timing is also critical.

TL
MC

[Traditionalist]

The difference in behaviour of the leader when using heavy flies is due to the fact that the heavy fly is traveling forward under its own momentum. With lighter flies the leader is pulling the fly forward and if the leader is set up properly and the cast is correct it will also turn the fly over.  With a heavy fly this does not happen.

TL
MC

[ibm59]

Interesting Brian,

I would have thought that it would have made almost no difference particularly with heavy salmon flies. Maybe your leaders are very thick indeed at the butt?

I use 12' Riverge tapered leaders in 19&23 lbs bs. Couldn't honestly tell you the butt diameter ( google is your friend ) , but it is fairly hefty.

My standard set up for fishing copper tubes up to , and including , 3/4'' is 12' , 19lb bs Riverge leader + 2mm leader ring + anything up to 6' of 19lb Seaguar. Although , to be honest , the tippet length tends to be in the 2-4' range.
Above 3/4'' copper or brass tubes , I use the same length of  tapered leader but in 23lb Seaguar

For doubles ,  size 8 and larger  , I'll use the same set up as for 3/4'' copper tubes.
Below size 8 , same 19lb leader but with 15lb Seaguar tippet.

Basically , my leader set up will never be shorter than rod length , and I strive to make sure that my leader , and only my leader , forms my anchor.

Try it sometime . You'll never go back to level leaders.
Well , on the double hander anyway.

ps I use the above set ups on shooting heads and full length lines. You've seen them in action :wink:

[Traditionalist]

Try it sometime . You'll never go back to level leaders.
Well , on the double hander anyway.

Always a lot of discussion about this. Although I have never found it to make much difference with heavy flies, there is another far more pressing reason for me not to use the really good commercial tapered leaders, and that is simply the cost. I find them ridiculously expensive. 

TL
MC

[ibm59]

I find them ridiculously expensive. 

They are a bit , for sure , and initially getting set up with them can be felt in the wallet.
But , and it's a big but , I seldom have to scrap any more than 2 in a season.
I do change the tippet ring on a regular basis , and re- knot them frequently.

For me , the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages.

[Traditionalist]

For me , the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages.

That's the main criteria for a lot of stuff, if you are happy with it then that's what you use. I know a few people who swear by them for the big heavy tubes used a lot in various parts of Scandinavia, but I really have never noticed a difference, even when fishing somebody else's rod, and then swapping back to my own. Always very interesting to hear various views on such matters though.

TL
MC

[ibm59]

. I know a few people who swear by them for the big heavy tubes used a lot in various parts of Scandinavia

I swear by them for just about anything I'm likely to tack onto the end of the tippet.

No more skipping / blown anchors , and far better turnover than the equivalent length of level leader.