Author Topic: Grousenomics  (Read 12189 times)

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Offline admin

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Grousenomics
« on: November 13, 2010, 05:21:57 PM »
Interesting news story here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11748775

It is estimated that the grouse sector directly employs 220 people in the whole of Scotland.  Is there any other industry employs so few  people per acre of land?

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Offline admin

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 09:58:01 PM »
Indeed. There is  much talk right now about "welfare scroungers". I wonder how much taxpayers money by way land subsidies support these 220 jobs?   Poor value for money in anyone's book.
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Offline Texxa

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 12:17:51 AM »
There is far more contribution than the direct jobs...this report suggested ?11m being injected into often remote communities with few job opportunities.

There are plenty of examples of councils running former grouse moors having lost or banned shooting. The result is a woeful waste of tax payer's money and grouse habitat lost due to incompetence and /or lack of resource.

It's a dangerous route to argue against something because you don't like the people that do it?!

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 09:17:37 AM »
Whether we  like it or approve of it or not is not the question. In simple economic terms does laying over vast tracts of land to provide 220 jobs make sense?   We can't really consider indirect jobs as it's impossible to put a figure or a value on them 

We can look  at the, ?11 million pounds of course, which must include the value of these indirect jobs and  it is  peanuts considering the vast amount of land being set aside in order to make it possible.

There has to be a better use of Scotland?s land resource than this, surely? Without even going  into the damage caused to scrub regeneration and bio diversity by burning  to maintain the virtual heather monoculture of the grouse moor, public money through land subsidy etc.

This report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-11665227
suggests that in Galloway alone the ?red kite trail?   has brought  ?21m into the local economy over the past 6 years. Allegedly kites and other raptors are not looked upon favorably by grouse moor managers even although they might appear to have a greater potential  economic benefit for the wider community than grouse.
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Offline admin

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 02:18:06 PM »
No, read it again. I'm not slagging anything off. I'm asking a question. Is there any other industry employs so few  people per acre of land?

As far as better use goes, it could be  that a more diverse and natural  mix of plants, birds and animals might provide more scope for wildlife tourism as seen in Galloway?

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Offline burnie

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 02:49:28 PM »
Fishing? :worms :crap
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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 02:53:06 PM »
Fishing? :worms :crap

Don't laugh, more biodiversity might well improve the fishing.  :lol:
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Offline admin

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 04:15:45 PM »
My own thoughts are that Grouse shooting all ready benefits the diversity, wildlife and tourism in the Highlands why knock it?

What I have read suggests the opposite. Undoubtedly   it helps maintain grouse numbers with varying degrees of success. The research into this including the most successful patterns of muirburn was done (back in the 1960s I think)    by Adam Watson of the Institute of  Terrestrial Ecology near Banchory for his phd thesis. Open blasted heath with  no scrub or trees does not promote  a natural or diverse environment. Neither does illegally killing raptors which ,allegedly,  correlates with the most intensively grouse managed areas of Scotland:  Angus, Perthshire and the Borders.

I have no information  for wildlife tourism other than that link above and I?d be very surprised if there was a whole lot available.  Unlike grouse shooting which has been a faltering  economic venture since the 19th century, wildlife tourism  is an infant just learning to walk. Killing what the people  come to see is hardly  likely to help it expand.

In Scotland a total of ?600 million was paid out in land subsidies in 2009. I?m sure most would agree this is not  a trifling amount. I don?t know the breakdown, but it?s intended to support farming I believe.

I spoke with workers on the estate we fished on up at Kinbrace in 2005 and they were concerned that the change in the subsidy regime would allow the Laird to keep far fewer  stock (mainly sheep) and still receive  the same amount of public money each year. They had a real fear that fewer stock would mean  fewer jobs. It could  be argued then that on a mixed sporting / livestock farming estate if you are getting the same money for doing less farming, then a greater proportion of it is supporting  the sporting side.  Would that be a good use of public money if it was supporting grouse shooting that directly provides 220 jobs in the whole of the country?

A farmer I spoke with in Glenshee a few years ago was complaining  the estate was preventing him using areas of what had always  been the best hill grazing for  sheep. According to  the farmer this was to make way for grouse. This seemed a bit strange as grouse do better on heather  and sheep do  better on grass.

Huntin? shootin? and fishin? are a perfectly legitimate use of land, all of us here do at least one of them. Legitimate yes,  but not to the exclusion of all  else and they certainly should only receive public support by way of handouts if there is a  wider economic benefit, especially a benefit measurable in jobs.

And while we are on the subject of public money, is this a good way to spend it?

http://www.flyfishing-and-flytying.co.uk/news/view/Montrose_salmon_nets_get_eu_grant/
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Offline Inchlaggan

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM »
.

This report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-11665227
suggests that in Galloway alone the ?red kite trail?   has brought  ?21m into the local economy over the past 6 years.

Don't you just love big number statistics? If you do the maths -that comes to 95.89 extra visitors per day for every single day of the six years, each spending ?100 day. Solely on the basis of Red Kites. See "Three kinds of lie", Mark Twain.
It is going to be a great help to the Fife "red kite trail" and local economy to know that those responsible for the reintroduction of the birds did so "from a secret location"!
'til a voice as bad as conscience,
rang interminable changes,
on an everlasting whisper,
day and night repeated so-
"Something hidden, go and find it,
Go and look beyond the ranges,
Something lost beyond the ranges,
Lost and waiting for you,
Go."

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Re: Grousenomics
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 04:46:30 PM »
Tourism is Scotland's biggest earner or so we are told anyway. We are a country that is relatively poor in resources with a harsh climate. Our landscape is probably our major selling point our wildlife may  help make that even more attractive.
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