Outdoor Trousers

[corsican dave]

Craghopper Kiwi trousers  - and they are cheap.

hmm, strange that.... :roll: i wonder why that could be? :?

sorry guys, but you're not comparing eggs with eggs here. i've always been a fan of shakespeare fishing rods, but i can assure you i'd buy hardy if i could afford it....

and i'm quite sure that statement will start a whole new discussion! :

[Traditionalist]

There are indeed severe problems involved in comparing various things nowadays and price and perception are major factors.

The basic suitability of a rod is governed by the blank and virtually ALL blanks nowadays are basically cheap mass produced items. It makes little difference what brand name is on the blank if the blank suits your intended use. What makes the real difference in terms of quality are the fittings.

Hardy blanks are made in Korea, the rods are merely "assembled" in the UK.

With trousers and such the basic suitability of the material is the main basic criterion.

There is a very widespread perception that "expensive" must be better than "cheap", with many things that is no longer the case.

[corsican dave]

There is a very widespread perception that "expensive" must be better than "cheap", with many things that is no longer the case.

there is also a far more widespread perception that everything can be obtained cheaply. that is indeed the case, but it is no guarantee of quality either. my livelihood depends on me selling high quality kit and maintaining a reputation for top notch service and advice. i do not stock craghoppers trousers although i could probably sell many more pairs of them. there would be no satisfaction in it for me and very little for my clients. maybe i am unusual in that i derive a great deal of pleasure from ensuring my customers leave the shop with the perfect piece of kit for them. otherwise i'd be back in the chemical industry earning far more money. you wouldn't find the manager of your local go outdoors or blacks offering to flame test fabrics for you....

please don't try and tell me about quality and production processes. for example, the goretex used in outdoor clothing is the same the world over (yes, i know there are a number of different types) but HOW the garments are put together does differ from manufacturer to manufacturer ( or "assembler", if you insist). there are genuine reasons why premium manufacturers such as haglofs, norrona, arcteryx, mountain equipment, harkila (to name but a few) are higher priced than some other brands. quality control is one.

i'm sorry if this seems like a rant, but once again i find myself giving genuine advice (you will note i have never tried to sell anything on here and have often recommended brands/items i don't stock) and running up against "cheap".

as a friend of mine once said regarding motorcycle gear " if you've got a five bob head, buy a five bob helmet"* :

*(25p for the youngsters out there....)

[Traditionalist]

Not a problem and you are perfectly right about the quality being in the "assembly".  That is basically what I wrote.

In view of what you posted I don't doubt that you like quality stuff, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, quite the reverse.  But there is no reason why some cheap stuff should not be good quality, and there is also no guarantee that expensive stuff is either.

Quite a few things are sold at premium prices which do not warrant such prices. Obviously if you know these things personally then you are in a better position to know that than somebody who doesn't.  However, generalising that "cheap" = "poor quality"  is a bad idea.

Korean rod blanks from various firms are quite excellent as a rule, and range from 6$ ex-factory for some finished rods costing in excess of 500 dollars retail.  The same blanks are used for rods costing 30 dollars retail and often the same hardware as well.  The difference in this case is the cost of marketing, the various markups etc. It is very rarely a case of better or lesser quality. It is purely a price difference for the same thing but with a brand name and a marketing department.

Obviously you know the clothing market in this case and I would not presume to argue about it with you as I only know it as a retail customer. But you can not apply the same arguments to rods and a lot of other stuff except in a very limited way.

I didn't know you sold anything at all, I don't know much about anybody on here.

I have no axe to grind here, I use and like some of the trousers I mentioned myself that's all. ( although I was mistaken in thinking they used duratwill for the whole range). I don't know anything at all about "Craghoppers" or indeed much about any others I have not used. I bought some Filsons once and they were OK but I found the duratwill work trousers suit me better.  I originally bought them for work and used them outdoors.  I found them tough, convenient, and comfortable.

I have never been very "conventional" in my choice of gear and I have often found that some stuff not "purpose made" for angling etc, is as good as it gets. I have also found that some purportedly "top of the line" stuff is not only expensive but not all that good either.

[Wildfisher]

sorry guys, but you're not comparing eggs with eggs here. i've always been a fan of shakespeare fishing rods, but i can assure you i'd buy hardy if i could afford it....

Fair enough, but it must be horses for courses surely?   I have never had any issue with Craghoppers. Found them perfectly serviceable and very good value for money actually.  No, they won't be much good for  an Everest summit bid, but I currently have no plans for one.  For the modest hill walking / fishing I  do they are great. Plenty of others I know say the same. Can't say fairer than that. 

[Wildfisher]

That's a good example of what I mean. The  cheap boots were fine for what I was doing at the time, out with the dug, up to, Beannie,  Callater etc. The rough walk you and I did last summer  finished  them they were already getting on anyway,  so it was time to buy something more suitable for rough hill use. I also bought another pair of the lightweight cheap boot and will continue to use those  for less arduous walking.  It's just selecting the right tool for the job. As soon as I decide to go for Everest I'll  buy a pair of Dave's super-breeks, but for Loch Beanie I'll just stick with the 20 quid Crags.  :lol:

Incidentally, on that same walk you and I did the Craghoppers I was wearing  performed well and the same pair continues  to do so.  I have them on now.  Over-engineering any product to be more robust or complicated than is necessary for its application makes little sense.

[Wildfisher]

Yes you are right, if my cheap boots had not already been on their last legs they would have been OK and the Craghoppers were magnificent, so cool in the searing heat.  :lol:

A lot of this hill gear stuff is little different from fishing gear and often has more to do with marketing and users wanting to look the part than actual need. Any Sunday in Aberdeenshire you can see people climbing  Bennachie  or Clachnaben kitted out like Sir Ranulph Fiennes setting out  for the north pole.  Equally you will see a family in t-shirt and jeans, which is daft at the other extreme.

In 1974 Hamish Brown walked all the Munros in a single journey wearing a pair of flannels tucked into his socks. Yes, sometimes it is wise to buy high performance  gear, but for walking / fishing in our modest hills during  summer a pair of  quick drying 20 quid Craghoppers is perfectly adequate.

Of course if you really want to fit it on our more prestigious rivers what you really should be wearing is this stuff.

[attachimg=1]

[Billy]

I like craghopper gear and have micro fleeces, trousers (lined and unlined) and a jacket which I wear during the winter heading into the office.

As previously said by someone it suits me for my days into the hills which these days are not too taxing. I suppose I would not be too bothered if I ripped the cheepo craghoppers on a barbed fence whereas I would be gutted if it happened to an all singing all dancing set of ultra dear breeks.

On the other hand i did notice Andy's (the Fachan) troosers which he had at Dundonnell and thought thye looked the dogs bollocks. I did mean to ask him what kind they were but thought it might seem a bit "Gok Wan-ish" to start talking wild fishing fashion accessories. Not really the conversation to kick off in a room full of rufty-tufty wild fishers.

Glad this thread started. I might at last find out what make Andy's troosers were.

Billy

[Wildfisher]

Billy, be careful  about using  "troosers" and  "bollocks" in the same sentence.   :lol:

[Billy]

I did think about it after posting.

Billy