who makes for whom? guideline fly lines

[corsican dave]

i think it's a pretty safe bet that Guideline fly lines are made by Airflo? the spools are exactly the same and even the "pipe cleaner" line retainers are identical... doesn't make it a bad line; the coastal floater was my go-to carp line, but sadly it's not made anymore

i seem to recall Fred telling me that there are actually very few line manufacturers out there? most are made by 4 or 5 companies world-wide and tweaked &/or re-packaged to the customer's specifications.

now you're out of the line business Fred, would you care to lift the lid on the world of fly line manufacturers?

[roberth]

Guideline fly lines are definitely manufactured by Airflo. The MacKenzie DTX salmon lines are also made by Airflo. Polyurethane, low stretch and ridge technology is the give away!

[Wildfisher]

My lines were made by 22M who also make lines for other  suppliers such as SKB

22M came into being when Shakespeare quit  the line business and sold out to Northern Sports, a Canadian outfit. 22M was started by 2 ex Shakespeare employees who made the lines.  Shakey also made Barrio's lines and last I heard they were still being made by Northern Sports. No idea about Airflo. Of all the UK makers Aiflo seem to have the best quality  coating but have other known issues.

Barrio / SKB and my own lines were fine. But it is disingenuous to say they are as good as Rio, SA etc. I never claimed that because they are flatly NOT as good.  Now that's fine as long as the lesser quality is reflected in the price. Some small suppliers are just greedy bastards. In my humble opinion of course!    Not everyone needs a Ferrari - often a Ford Fiesta is adequate. For example, paying £60 for a line that will only ever be used for short line loch style off a boat is in my opinion plain nuts. But then again I recently saw a post on Fly Forums that suggested buying a cheap line to use with a £600 rod is like fitting remoulds to a Ferrari. Wish I'd thought of that one!  :lol:

You supply the weight and profile specs and they will make anything for you. Coating slickness is where RIO, SA etc are miles out in front. The worst fly line I ever had was a Barrio Mallard, it was like sandpaper. However, sometimes bad lines do occur in some batches, it was hardly Mike's fault.  I had one or two poor lines  myself. All you can do is refund or replace. You can't try all the  lines out before you sell them.

IMO no one should EVER pay more than £20 for a trout fly line  from a badge engineering line supplier. At £20 these guys are making a very tidy profit.

[Mark]

I had a mallard line which was like sandpaper also. Claimed it was the 'air bubbles' which helped it float better, my god it was annoying as it scraped through the rod rings.
To be fair he did replace, but it wasnt much better in truth.

I fish spiders and nymphs 90% of the time and Ive almost completely ditched fly lines now. Frog leader for nymphing most of the time ...
..and I now use 1mm Spectra or dyneema line with a 4ft furled leader for spiders. I find it more delicate than a regular fly line, naturally floats and loads the rod at short distances which is ideal. £6 for 10 years worth.
For shooting line when fishing dries its crap.

I think Ive taken a decent family hatchback and fitted wheelbarrow wheels 

[corsican dave]

who makes for Hardy? anyone know?

[Wildfisher]

who makes for Hardy? anyone know?

Laurel?   

[caorach]

It is the same in a lot of business that one company, or a small number of companies, manufacture it all and then it is just a matter of marketing. With "sport optics" for example (rifle telescopic sights and binoculars) then many (maybe all the top names) are using Schott glass though a lot of companies do apply their own coatings in house and this does make a difference but I wonder how many also get the coatings applied by a 3rd party.

It is also the case that in an area where the requirements are simple - a fly line must cast or you must be able to look through binoculars, then many of the real technical challenges have already been solved and the product has, for a long time, been more than fit for purpose. So, a lot of people sell on "features" and I seem to see this more in the USA than here but think it is slowly coming here as well. You need to buy the 2018 model as soon as it is released because it will have some feature that you "must have" to set it apart from the 2017 model. Many of these "features" are unnecessary, never used and might actually be a disadvantage to some users.

It is also the case that companies sell on "brand image" to cut their place in the market, once their products are "fit for purpose" and so there is little to chose between them in the field. With optics for example in actual quantitative testing Zeiss always come out on top for glass quality and their prices tend to be similar to other big name brands. However, I'd guess that Zeiss don't have the most market share as other companies really crank up the marketing to highlight their unique selling points. So a company like Swaro sell on customer service and strong brand image but will not allow their products to be submitted for quantitative or comparative testing. Now their excellent customer service must be expensive to provide plus their strong brand image keeps the second hand value of their optics up making them good value for any buyer (they are an excellent product) but any test which showed that their glass was behind many of the other big names, even if all make optics which are over specified for general use, could puncture their brand image and put them out of the market. Now all the big name sport optics perform beyond what the normal user needs but a lot of people want the "best" and I guess a lot of companies are trading on the difference between "need" and "want" and the differences in exactly what people do "want" in the buying public.

This is why I have a Rio fly line :-) I needed it, so I told myself, but the truth is more likely that I wanted one and I wanted to give one a try. In my defence it is the multi-tip one and my reasoning - that it would save me on spools, backing etc. to have different sink rates - has actually worked for me plus I've been impressed with the quality and casting of the Rio line. I'd probably buy another one. However, I have a £130 line on a £60 rod.

[Wildfisher]

I find it more delicate than a regular fly line

I was skeptical, verging on cynical (hard to believe eh?  :lol:), but the use of a French Leader setup  has been a revelation for me. Not much use for most things of course, you have to get the casting  weight from the flies.

[corsican dave]

I was skeptical, verging on cynical (hard to believe eh?  :lol:), but the use of a French Leader setup  has been a revelation for me. Not much use for most things of course, you have to get the casting  weight from the flies.

i refer the honourable gentleman to the comments made by world renowned fishing guide, Hank Patterson  :lol:

[Mark]

Set that hook!